[Broadcast on 24 October 2006]

In response to the various problems in the reform of state-owned enterprises (SOEs), some people, especially government officials who gain from the privatisation process and those who now become new owners of the previously state-owned enterprises, argue that we should put aside all the injustice or even scandals in the reform process since most SOEs have been privatized. They always think that although the SOE reform process is plagued with injustice and scandals, they have all become the past and we should look forward to the future. However, apart from the fact that a lot of state assets are lost in the process, how can the workers of the previously state-owned enterprises and their families swallow the consequences of losing their jobs and living security? Starting from today, I will broadcast my interviews with Tao Chuan and Zhou Aimin, both worker representatives of the previously state-owned Dazhou Material Company in Sichuan and Yang Kezhang, a worker representative of Dazhou Jixing Automobile Company which was previously belonged to the same SOE. The workers in both former SOEs still cannot accept the official misconducts in the privatisation process and have been trying various ways, including applying for holding demonstrations and launching lawsuits, to fight for their rights.

Han Dongfang (Han): How many of you are here?

Workers: Three of us. Tao Chuan, Yang Kezhang and Zhou Aimin, worker representatives of the material company.

Han: Are you elected by workers?

Workers: Yes, we are. Tao and Zhou are worker representatives of Dazhou Material Company and Yang is a worker representative of Dazhou Jixing Automobile Company.

Han: Can we start our interview now?

Workers: Yes.

Han: So, can Tao Chuan tell us first about what happened during the reform of your company?

Tao: That's a long story. Basically, they [the company management] break all the state policies and rules.

Han: Do you mean they break the rules in every step of the reform?

Tao: You can say that. The reform process should be carried out in accordance with the requirements stated in the State Order No. 91 and Order No.3 issued by the State Assets Administration and Supervision Committee and the Ministry of Finance. The orders require that the company should first hold the workers' representatives congress (zhigong daibiao dahui) to discuss how to secure workers' interests in setting out the restructuring plan.

Han: Do you mean that the workers' representatives congress should be held before the restructuring process was launched or it should be held to tell workers' about the restructuring plan. These are two different concepts.

Tao: I mean the workers' representatives congress should be held to make sure that workers know about and understand the restructuring plan. Workers should discuss and approve the employee arrangement plan. That should be the necessary procedures to do the restructuring.

Han: So, it means that the restructuring plan should not be decided before workers have the chance to discuss it?

Tao: For the part of arrangement of workers, it's compulsory. If workers do not approve the employee arrangement plan, the restructuring plan should not be carried out.

Han: Then, didn't you hold a workers' representatives congress?

Tao: No, not even now.

Han: Then, how did you workers know about the restructuring plan and the employee arrangement plan?

Tao: We didn't know about the restructuring plan before. Our company was auctioned on 14 August 2004. We were only told about that about two weeks before. The company suddenly held a meeting and told us that the company would be auctioned and those who have money could apply to buy shares of the company.

Han: to buy it individually or collectively?

Tao: They didn't say that.

Han: When was it? Who said that?

Tao: That's the legal representative of the company, Ren Zhisheng.

Han: How did he tell the workers?

Tao: He told us to attend the meeting.

Han: Which year?

Tao: In July 2004, shortly before the company was auctioned. Only few workers attended the meeting, about 30 or 40 people.

Han: How workers were in your work unit (danwei)?

Tao: We had 120 workers.

Han: So the legal representative told you to attend the meeting at that time?

Tao: He read out part of the restructuring plan stated in Document No. 33 during the meeting.

Han: What's Document No. 33?

Tao: It was set out by the Dazhou city government.

Han: What's the content of the document?

Tao: The major difference between the Document No. 33 and the state requirements was that it tackled the employee arrangement problem with the "one size fits all" approach. It also said that the employee arrangement problem would be dealt with after the state-owned enterprise was sold. The document erased the section stated in the state and provincial government documents which required that the restructuring plan and the employee arrangement plan should be discussed and approved by the workers' representatives congress.

Han: Can we say that the restructuring of your work unit (danwei) was actually a plan to auction off the state-owned enterprise?

Tao: Yes. But in fact, the so-called restructuring plan took place for many years. Both workers and officials from above supported the plan of internal restructuring, meaning that workers collectively bought the company, but the company didn't agree with it. We didn't know why the company didn't agree with it. The company even still cheated the workers before the auction of the company that the company would still belong to the workers.

Han: You said the workers had requested to collectively buy the company. When did they request it?

Tao: Around 1999 or early 2000.

Han: You said that it was initially the workers who requested to collectively buy the company?

Tao: At that time, the company also had this policy. It was Ren Zhisheng who controlled the whole thing.

Han: The company said you could buy the shares of the company if you were willing to?
Tao: The company officials requested to officials from above level to buy this state-owned enterprise.

Han: So, the company officials bought the company on behalf of the workers and then workers would pay them back to buy the shares of the company from their own pocket?

Tao: Yes, they still told us that before the auction.

Han: The company's legal representative kept saying that until July 2004?

Tao: Yes.

Han: Then, how was the company sold?

Tao: There were many problems when it was sold. So, we requested to immediately hold the workers' representatives congress. They didn't agree and said that they would hold the meeting after the company was sold.

Han: Then, during the meeting, did they ask how much the workers were willing to pay to buy the company's shares?

Tao: No. They only said that who had money could apply to buy it.

Han: Wasn't it that the work unit (danwei) bought the company on behalf of the workers first and the workers collected money to buy it back?

Tao: No, it wasn't like that.

Han: Why was it changed suddenly during the meeting?

Tao: Yes.

Han: What's the workers' reaction at that time?

Tao: The workers were shocked.

Han: Was it that many workers had prepared some money to buy the shares of the company?

Tao: No. I was a middle-level cadre in the work unit (danwei) and was also a worker representative. During a meeting in June that year, the company officials told us that the company would still belong to the workers after they bought the company. So the company asked us to calm down the workers. We had many workers. They asked us to give the workers their wages, so that it could make the company seem to be a stable enterprise. During the meeting, they still told us that the company would still belong to the workers after they bought it. So the workers were still left in the dark at that time.

Han: So, it was a big shock to the worker when the company held the meeting in July 2004?

Tao: Yes. So, the workers immediately demand to hold the workers' representatives congress.

Han: Who was in charge of the restructuring of your company? Which government department made the decision?

Tao: Dazhou city government.

Han: Which department carried out the restructuring plan?

Tao: City mayor Yang Gang was in charge of carrying out the plan.

Han: Then what about government department? Which department?

Tao: It was the material bureau, which is now called the commercial affairs bureau.

Han: The commercial affairs bureau carried out the restructuring plan and it was supervised by the deputy mayor?

Tao: There were many problems in the whole incident. When the workers opposed to it, the company set out a lot of criteria to limit it to certain group of people who could be qualified to buy the company's shares. It required that those who wanted to buy the shares should have more than three years' working experience in material management and that they should be level-one managers or duty managers in the company. As a result, ordinary workers were excluded from it.

Han: They required those who wanted to buy the shares to have those qualifications?

Tao: Yes, more than three years' management experience.

Han: And they also said you could buy it if you had money?

Tao: No, the most important condition was that you needed to have more than three years' management experience. So, it meant that only five people in the company were qualified. Three of them applied for it.

Next Thursday at the same time, please continue to listen to my conversation with Tao Chuan, a worker representative of formerly state-owned Dazhou Material Company in Sichuan.