(Broadcast on August 3, 2002)

On July 24, 2002, a gas explosion occurred at the Taojiawan coal mine. The Taojiawan pit is in Yushe village, Shuicheng county, Liupanshui city in Guizhou province. According to official reports, 25 people were working in the pit at the time of whom18 were killed and seven injured. I rang government offices at city, county and township levels to learn more about the accident and also managed to speak about safety conditions with miners injured in the explosion. According to one miner who was in the shaft at the time of the accident but fortunately escaped death, there were 31 miners in the shaft, considerably more than the official count of twenty-five. I also spoke with a Mr. Jiang, head of the Liupanshui Coal Bureau who explained some of the problems in China's coal policy. Please listen to the following conversation with Mr. Jiang.

Coal Bureau Chief (Jiang hereafter):

We have just concluded a meeting to make arrangements for the investigation into the accident. People are getting on with the job they have been assigned. I am head of the coal bureau.

Han:

Can you tell us your name?

Jiang:

My name is Jiang.

Han:

Mr. Jiang?

Jiang:

Correct.

Han:

Are all the 18 miners confirmed dead local people?

Jiang:

No?.they're?.they're not from this area. Most of them are from other provinces.

Han:

Where are they from?

Jiang:

From Xuanwei [city] in Yunnan province, about one hundred kilometre from here.

Han:

Why have these workers come all this way to dig coal?

Jiang:

Oh, well?.right now I can't give you exact answers. These workers?.Well this is how things are in rural areas right now. There are lots of people and not much land. When the busy season’s work is over, they leave to try and earn a little money elsewhere. This is a relatively common situation as they have quite serious economic difficulties. Too many people, not enough land. The bottom line for most is that they can't make ends meet by solely relying on the land. So they drift over here to find work in the small coal pits. These people are comparatively, well, very poor in fact.

Han:

How many small-scale mines are there in and around Yushe town altogether?

Jiang:

Small coal mines like this one? There is no way of compiling statistics. At the moment?.since mid-May, we have made great efforts to close the mines operating without permits. Even though this mine [where the accident took place] is not as remote as others, it's tucked away in a gully. In fact, it's pretty well hidden.

Han:

Where is most of the coal sold?

Jiang:

The coal?.? We are looking into that in the investigation. We are not talking about a lot of coal and in fact this mine had just started up at the beginning of July. Some of it is spirited away to power plants and places like that. This is precisely what we want to find out, where is it sold, how and to whom? These are key questions for the investigation.


Han:

After you have investigated these questions, will there be any?.

Jiang:

If, during the investigation, we find that regulations have been violated and?that coal from an unlicensed pit has been sold, we will take responsibility along with those involved.

Han:

Right now, are you having difficulties in closing down the smaller coal mines?

Jiang:

Well, here is Guizhou province, we are experiencing problems with this, especially in poor areas like this one.

Han:

Do you feel it would do any good to bring in trade unions and organise the workforce in these coal mines, and then allow the unions to monitor safety issues?

Jiang:

This is a very important part of our work in the mines with operating permits: organising trade unions, using the union to contact workers and increase their safety awareness and capacity to protect themselves. But it's a different matter altogether with the illegal mines operating without permits. They're illegal so we are not talking about organising them and right now [the policy is] we shut them down as we find them. These outfits are in out-of-the-way places up in the mountains. They're pretty much hidden and work at night rather than in the daytime. We can't organise trade unions in these [illegal] mines.

Han:

The scenario you are describing isn’t really a solution as such -- just shutting them down. Don’t we need to be talking about more positive measures?

Jiang:

I agree. Positive measures means that at the same time as closing down the illegal mines, we should develop the ones with investment potential and proper permits. As I was just saying, by developing these safer legal mines we can address the problem of surplus labour in poor areas where they are solely reliant on subsistence farming and provide a way out for the surplus labour. Our idea is to integrate closure with development. But there is a problem here as well. National policy is to close down pits and limit production. [Some] local pits are registered. There have been waves of closures. The first one had a 30 percent closure rate and now we are looking at a second wave of another 30 percent and I think the national coal bureau will go for a third wave of a 12.5 percent, including some registered ones. But?.well?. this isn’t integrated?.it’s not a solution.

Han:

It seems to me that there is a big difference between central government policies and the concrete situation on the ground where economic development and employment opportunities for farmers need to be taken into account.

Jiang:

That’s exactly what I am talking about. But?. how can I put it? The government has its general policies, but for us on the ground have to deal with the real problems of livelihood, local economy and job creation. The local economy and local government need to develop these registered mines. They meet real needs. But if we talk about national policy then there are the large coal stocks that have built up to take into account. This affected the price of coal and the value of these national coal reserves dropped. As a result there was a need to close down the badly run unsafe coal mines. This was the right thing to do. But we need to do more than just shut down the unsafe mines. To really get it right, we need to develop the better ones at the same time.

Han:

You are talking about putting in resources to transform these unsafe outfits into properly run mines?

Jiang:

Right. We need investment to reorganise them into safe pits with good production levels and use them to sort out the surplus labour in the countryside.

Han:

Also if we just shut them down, then we force them to operate secretly and that’s even more dangerous isn’t it?

Jiang:

Put it like this?.We turn up and shut them down, they reopen and operate secretly. Who is going to invest in a mine that operates illegally? Moreover, they won’t dare to use any ventilation equipment as this would mean they get caught more easily. We close them down and the losses are even greater.

Han:

So they won’t even dare to use ventilation equipment? Has the local coal bureau reported all these problems to the higher authorities?

Jiang:

We did. It doesn’t matter where we are working, we have reported these problems.

Han:

For how long have you been reporting this situation?

Jiang:

Well?. for more than a year.

Han:

And have you had any reaction from higher up?

Jiang:

We have had not formal reaction to date. Not as far as I know at any rate.

Han:

No reaction at all?

Jiang:

None.

Han:

Not even an acknowledgement?

Jiang:

Right now the pressure is on us to get in line with national policies and raise awareness of them.

Han:

If we look at this from the perspective of market economics, government intervention to raise the price of coal and force the closure of mines?.well it’s blatant state intervention in the market.

Jiang:

Yes. This is the situation. There are related questions on the legal implications!

Han:

Can you be specific?

Jiang:

I am talking about small mines that are unsafe and badly run but are nevertheless legal. That is to say they formally applied for operating permits to a land department or coal bureau or trade department in accordance with previous national regulations and received permission to operate. But there is a problem now [because policy has changed].

Han:

Is this resulting in closures of this category?

Jiang:

Some in this category are being closed and also some bigger ones.

Han:

On what grounds did they close them [the bigger pits]?

Jiang:

Well?.closing them down? Isn’t there a government policy concerning this? There was?.the old 30 regulations and apart from those mines that were inspected....now with the new set of regulations, if it doesn't conform to the new regulations they will shut it down.

Han:

So the government’s real aim is to limit production and raise the price of coal?

Jiang:

I can’t really say it like that (laughing). It’s certainly related but it’s not for me to say. But it’s certainly better to understand these things from what is happening on the ground.