The Value of Miners' Life-- Interviews with an Insurance Company Manager, Chongqing (II)

[Broadcast on 24 July 2004]

Last week, CLB broadcast the interview with Mr Wang, a manager from Chongqing City’s Qijiang Insurance Company. He talked about the possibility of requiring mining companies to enhance their work safety through compulsory insurance. Mr Wang also explained that the current chaotic operational system at coalmines, as miners working in the pits were not insured and miners might have delays, if not any troubles, in claiming compensation due to inconsistent records. He also pointed out that if the government remained passive in supervising work safety of mines, insurance companies might not take clients like mining companies, which meant miners would be even less secure at work. Today, Mr Wang is going to share more of his views.

Han Dongfang [Han]:
Let’s assume that if the government makes it compulsory for all mining companies to have their workers insured and the insurance companies are able to ensure a high standard of work safety at mines; in other words, if both the government and the insurance companies are keeping an eye on the mines, then the mining companies will become more aware of their work safety and therefore they would pay more effort in enhancing their safety standards.

Mr Wang:

Yes, it should be like this. In fact, the government should know that it [mining industry] is rather dangerous and it should urge the mining companies to get their workers insured. It is what the government should do. Furthermore, it has to increase safety examinations and make sure the regulations are properly implemented. As we know, accidents usually are caused by violations of the safety regulations. So if the government simply enacts regulations without actually implementing them, it is just not enough. The safety departments should thus make sure that these regulations are genuinely followed.

Han:

Exactly! For insurance companies, if they couldn’t play any role in safety inspection but only make insurance contracts with mining companies, then, as we can see, they would just keep paying compensation and finally become bankrupt because of that.

Mr Wang:

Yes, indeed.

Han:

What do you think insurance companies can do to get involved in safety control, while at the same time to make sure it won’t become bankrupt because of the high risk in offering services to mining companies?

Mr Wang:

Mining industry is a very special industry. We need specialists who know how to ensure occupational safety in this industry, but at the moment, our company still has nobody to do this part of work. Therefore, I think the government should be responsible for such safety management. Insurance companies, in fact, should only focus on the safety standard of each mine, the implementation of safety regulation and the risk estimation, in order to draw up guidelines for the business. We really would have difficulties if we are also responsible for requesting the mines to cooperate and examining the mines. It is really difficult for us.

Han:

However, if the insurance companies can’t ensure the safety in the mines, don’t you think you still have uncertain factors [for your business]?

Mr Wang:

Yes, that’s true. Insurance companies have certain limitations. We don’t know much about the mining industry and the conditions in the pits. We can only estimate the risk by seeing what safety facilities a mine has. Of course, for smaller mines, there are loads of problems [which we don’t know].

Han:

So what will you do if a small mine, let say with 30 miners, want to get an insurance package from you?

Mr Wang:

We probably have to add some more terms in the contracts. For instance, we will require the exact names of those 30 miners. We want to have their names, addressses, and identity card numbers. These are the things we failed to do well in the past. In fact, we should have requested the mining company to provide us with those information. The identity cards and names can guarantee that they wouldn’t give us the names carelessly and randomly. The mining company can’t employ these miners for a few days and then fire them. Insurance companies only compensate those people with their names in our records and I think such a practice is actually good for the coalmine management. If it has to provide us names with identity proof, it means the mining company can’t change its employees in a large-scale so frequently. At the moment, safety education and pre-occupational training are not well supervised, but we are not able to check these because it is the government’s responsibility. Has it given the workers approvals to work? Has it provided any training [for the workers]? We want a name list with fixed employees and we don’t want the mining company to change those names all the time. The mining company should give us names for approval, or when it makes changes in employment, it has to notify us and we will sign new insurance contract with the new employee. It will be a problem if this part of work is not carried out because we can only compensate those whose names are on our list, if they die.

Han:

Yes, exactly! By the way, since when has your insurance company started to work with mining industry?

Mr Wang:

Since this March, we got into this market since March or April this year.

Han:

How many mines in Qijiang County have been insured?

Mr Wang:

The figure is not that precise, it should be… well, not very exact, as I observe, there are 2,000 to 3,000 miners in Qijiang County.

Han:

[Do] you mean they are all insured?

Mr Wang:

No, I mean there are so many people in the industry. I think some have been insured by my company and some by other insurance companies. But I can’t tell an exact figure.

Han:

Is it the first time for your insurance company to pay compensation [for miners]?

Mr Wang:

No, no. There were some before; it is not the first time.

Han:

Since your company started providing insurance services to the mining industry, have you made any profits or loss so far?

Mr Wang:

Now, of course, we lost more than we earned [laugh]. For sure it is a loss. There are some cases which we haven’t paid, because we need to do some investigation first. It is obvious that we are losing a lot of money by providing insurance services for the mining industry.

Han:

If it goes on like this, do you think you would leave the mining industry if you are going to lose too much?

Mr Wang:

It is possible, quite possible. I must revise the insurance terms now. We can’t use the current ones anymore. We must make some adjustments in the insurance premiums, as we can’t endure a loss all the time. Insurance companies gotta survive too, don’t you think so? There are so many accidents each year and we are losing so much money. We either don’t enter this market at all or we have to change those criteria.

Han:

From the view of the insurance companies to cultivate the insurance sector and improve work safety [in the mine industry], is there anything the government should do to improve the situation?

Mr Wang:

Well, we can put it like this. There are safety related departments in the government, right? Such as Labour Supervision Departments, Labour Bureau, right? Also the Work Safety Supervision Bureau. I think they need to do more in those areas.

Han:

If an insurance company, while accepting a mine to be insured, helped the miners establish their own Occupational Safety Committee, that is, an independent committee on monitoring their own work safety. Will such a practice help reduce the risk of the insurance company?

Mr Wang:

I think so, it should be. If workers can have their own organization to protect themselves, certainly they would ask the coalmine management or the mine owners to guarantee certain safety issues before they go down to work in the pit. It is a need and also a respect for the workers. I am pretty sure about it. Yet, there are so many small mines here. They don’t have a fixed number of staff and it is rather difficult to get them organized.

Han:

I see. And thank you so much for your time.

Mr Wang:

Welcome.

Han:

May I call you again if I have to ask something later?

Mr Wang:

Sure!

Han:

Then, goodbye!

Mr Wang:

Bye!

In recent years, coalmine accidents, especially those serious ones which have killed dozens of miners, are no longer news. Mainland media had more coverage on the miserable lives of miners and their extremely poor working conditions in the last two years, but people are now getting used to the shameful living conditions and daunting working conditions of the miners. At first, people were shocked to learn about miners’ turmoil, and then became disappointed. Although there have been more and more reports about safety problems in mines, the society, however, has become more inert to these accidents. Coalmines are not only the working place of miners but also their tombs. What else can we do on the whole system apart from just digging out and exposing the cold hard facts of mine accidents? In other words, what can we do to effectively reduce such accidents? Cai Chongguo, CLB’s Trade Union Education Director, has repeatedly cited the importance of an indepentent occupational safety committee, which is totally and wholly supervised by miners themselves, in reforming the trembling working condition in mining industry.