[Broadcast on 5 November 2005]
It is well known that there is a big difference between the retirement pay or pensions of those who have retired from a public institution (i.e., public school, hospital, etc) and those that have retired from a state-owned enterprise. In recent years, the financial pressures on the families of all retired workers have increased. One reason is that medical problems and costs rise as one ages. In addition, many retirees have also seen their sons and daughters lose their jobs in state enterprises. With communication channels to the relevant authorities blocked in many cases, more and more retirees are choosing to take their complaints to the street and staging public demonstrations. They are demanding that the government increase the pensions paid to state enterprise retirees and reduce the gap between their payments and those of other institutions.
However, the government has not responded to the retirees' demonstrations. They have instead put down these public demonstrations with force and the result is that the gulf between the local governments and retirees of state enterprises has grown. Today we are launching a series of broadcasts of my discussions with Chen Ren Jian, a retiree living in Hangzhou and one of those who is part of the group fighting for higher pension payments for former employees of state enterprises.
Han Dongfang: What is it that you retirees are demanding?
Chen: Our wages were always too low and as a result our pensions are very small. It is very difficult to get by nowadays.
Han: When did you yourself retire and how much is your pension these days?
Chen: I retired in 1997.
Han: How long did you work for the company?
Chen: 37 years
Han: How much is your pension today?
Chen: It is less than 1,000 yuan.
Han: Less than 1,000 yuan?
Chen: That's right
Han: Has there been any change in the payment since you retired in 1997?
Chen: It has been raised, but only by a very small amount.
Han: Now, looking at the level of living expenses, the consumer price level, what do you think would be a more reasonable level? What are you asking for?
Chen: There are several (benchmarks) in Hangzhou. We have the retirees from state enterprises, the retirees from public institutions, teachers and others. The pension allowance of state enterprise retirees is less than 1,000 yuan. Theirs are two to three times greater than ours.
Han: Do you know which departments in your area...?
Chen: The Housing Authority. We rent our home from the government. Do you know how they collect the money?
Han: Is that the Municipal Housing Authority?
Chen: The very lowest official in the Municipal Housing Authority gets a pension that is two to three times higher than ours.
Han: You now receive less than 1,000 yuan (a month).
Chen: They get more than 2,000 yuan (a month).
Han: And is that because they were from an institutional organisation?
Chen: They are an institutional organisation. We are a state enterprise unit and their (pension) payments are two to three times what ours are.
Han: Let's not talk about their remuneration. How about your personal living needs and the cost of goods in Hangzhou...
Chen: It's very expensive here!
Han: What do you think would be a reasonable increase to your pension payments, which are currently less than 1,000 yuan a month?
Chen: They should be raised to the about the same level as the retirees from those institutions...
Han: Have you calculated how much that would be?
Chen: What do you mean how much?
Han: I mean how much money do you think would be a reasonable amount per month, that is, how much do you need to live on?
Chen: We do not have very big problems as regards daily living expenses. If we have to, we can live on what we receive. But we feel that it is unreasonable.
Han: So that's to say that you can live on a monthly pension of less than 1,000 yuan if you have to, but if you compare what you receive and what those from other institutions, the teachers, former hospital workers, it's not fair?
Chan: It is not fair. If we have to, we can live on 1,000 yuan a month, but we cannot get sick. If we do, we can't afford it.
Han: Don't you have medical insurance?
Chen: They will deduct something for medical insurance.
Han: How much do you pay to see the doctor when you are sick, for example?
Chen: If we have to stay in the hospital, we must first pay 800 yuan of our own money.
Han: So that's to say, that if you stay in hospital, the first 800 yuan in expenses is paid directly by the retiree and anything over that you put in a claim for ?
Chen: They do not pay 100 percent. There are some deductions!
Han: Has anyone close to you gone through this procedure?
Chen: My wife has diabetes and she has been in hospital. But the problem is we cannot afford to let her stay in the hospital.
Han: Is she retired?
Chen: Yes, she is. She's 67 years old.
Han: Where did she retire from?
Chen: She was my comrade at Hangzhou Silk (Hangzhou Sizhou).
Han: Is that Hangzhou United Silk Processing Factory (Hangzhou Sizhou Lianhe Jiagongchang)?
Chen: Yes
Han: And she has been sick and hospitalized in the past?
Chen: When there was no choice, she had to go to hospital.
Han: How did you get the money together for the hospital bill?
Chen: We had no money, so we didn't go to the hospital. It is only when there was no other way. It's diabetes. We were forced to go and put her in hospital.
Han: How long was she in the hospital?
Chen: She stayed there for 10 days.
Han: And what was the bill in all?
Chen: We paid 2,000 yuan in all for the charges. I paid 2,000 yuan of my own money.
Han: Didn't you say that you only had to put up 800 yuan?
Chen: No, no! After she became sick, we took her to the hospital and we put up an initial 800 yuan to cover the charges. But in addition to that 800 yuan, we still had to pay a percentage of the bill ourselves.
Han: So of the remainder of the charges, what percentage did you have to pay?
Chen: It's not fixed. Usually, it's between 17 and 20 percent.
Han: You have to pay between 17 and 20 percent yourself?
Chen: Yes,
Han: Last year when your wife was sick and had to go into hospital, you paid approximately 17 to 20 percent.
Chen: Correct, correct.
Han: Let's go back for a minute. You don't usually have any other problems living on your pension?
Chen: We can feed ourselves.
Han: How much can you save from your pension of less than 1,000 yuan after deducting your meals?
Chen: You can't possibly save anything! This life, well, you can live simply, or you spend a lot. What I am talking about is just a bit better than the lowest level. You can just make it.
Han: So your monthly pension is spent basically on food and that's it.
Chen: That's right. If you need to go to the doctor, it's just not possible. So we have a lot of opinions about the situation. When my group was working, we all had work insurance which covered everything. Now we are all retired and we don't have any insurance at all.
Han: So, you now only have a portion of the medical insurance.
Chen: Yes.
Han: When did you all start looking into this situation?
Chen: I started on July 1 last year, but (of the others) the earliest was more than two years ago.
Han: How many retired workers will be affected?
Chen: 250,000
Han: How many workers are participating?
Chen: A lot. There are at least 2,000 to 3,000 people.
Han: What are the main companies that they come from?
Chen: Hangzhou United Silk (Hangzhou Sizhou Lianhe Jiagongchang), Zhejiang Linen (Zhejiang Mafang Chang), First Hangzhou Cotton (Hangzhou Diyimianfangchang), Hangzhou Oxygen Production (Hangzhou Zhiyangqichang), Hangzhou Boiler Factory (Hangzhou Guoluchang), Hangzhou Automobile Engine Factory (Hangzhou Qiche Fadongjichang), Hangzhou Lumber Mill (Hangzhou Mucaichang), lots of companies, lots of them.
Han: Are they all former state enterprises?
Chen: All of them are state-owned enterprises.
Han: Does every enterprise have a worker representative, or someone who dares to speak out?
Chen: They all do, and they have a cadre from production and a cadre from the management group.
Han: You said there are cadres from the company leadership in your group?
Chen: I'm telling you they didn't come out before, but now they have.
Han: They weren't willing to come out before?
Chen: It's not that they weren't willing. They were afraid. Afraid of the government.
Han: Which group were the ones that were afraid?
Chen: In the beginning, it was the cadres, the party members that didn't dare to speak out. Now, they have more guts and they're all speaking out.
Han: Why do they have more guts to speak out now?
Chen: Now, we're all working on it together. We have a lot of people. What we're doing is a fair and just thing. It is the moral thing, so I'm not afraid, either.
Han: Is there any particular factor? Is it that you all just can not make ends meet?
Chen: Correct, correct. One reason is life is very difficult and another is we feel that it is not fair. Both reasons.
Han: So there are more and more of you. What was your job in the past?
Chen: I was a middle-ranking cadre in the plant.
Han: Were you on the shop floor or in the administration office?
Chen: I have held both positions. I was the shop foreman and the head of the administration office.
Han: You yourself are a Communist Party member?
Chen: I am a party member and an advanced worker [1].
Han: Would you say that you, sir, were one of those who did not dare to come out in the beginning?
Chen: No. I don't know. I didn't understand the situation.
Han: You didn't understand the situation in the beginning?
Chen: I started on July 1 last year.
Han: And after you heard about the situation, did you immediately get involved?
Chen: When I heard about the situation, I though that it was very unfair. Now, because I understand the law and I know how to present things, I can speak the truth on behalf of these retired workers, so I joined the group.
Han: What action are you all taking in this process?
Chen: We have sent a petition to the government asking them to look into this situation.
Han: Are you doing it as a group? Or are the workers' representatives doing it?
Chen: The representatives have gone and the group as a whole. When the representatives go, there is not much of a problem. But when the group comes out, then the government will give us trouble.
Han: When the group goes, then there is trouble?
Chen: On October 13 last year, I was put under surveillance.
Han: Was that one year ago?
Chen: On the evening of October 13 last year, they served me with a summons.
Han: Why?
Chen: He said that I was disturbing the social order and charged me with a criminal offense.
Han: In that incident on October 13, what did you do that resulted in your being charged with a criminal offense?
Chen: Two to three thousand of us marched on the city government.
Han: Did you block the traffic or something?
Chen: We staged a sit-in at the door of the municipal government building. There wasn't much traffic. We had a lot of room!
Han: So you all gathered there?
Chen: I didn't go. I was at home under police surveillance.
Han: On that day, you all agreed to meet in front of the city gate and on the same day, the Public Security Bureau came and put you under surveillance?
Chen: Correct.
Han: Restricting your freedom and not allowing you to go out?
Chen: Correct. They didn't let me go.
Han: What reason did they give?
Chen: They suspected me of disturbing social law and order.
Han: They suspected you of disturbing social law and order?
To be continued.
Note:
[1] Advanced worker (xianjin gongzuozhe) - This is a title awarded by the party for one’s good performance and may include an one-off bonus.